Bill and I are discussing his investigatory pages at Econet.

Bill, Sinn = meaning and Wesen = being are German philosophical concepts. Florian is from Germany and he added them.

Am looking at some of the text here. I do not recognise the word wesen.. I was doing a looksy to make edits if necessary.

Just getting started again!

Hi Bill! I look forward to working with you today on your investigation.

Marcus, I have listed you as the organizer of Econet. I can be the webmaster.

Hi Jere! I look forward to talking with you and Marcus today, Wednesday.

Welcome, Dave Darby! What is a question that you don't know the answer to, but you wish to answer?

I made it home to Vilnius, Lithuania after a successful trip to visit Marcus in Tampere, Finland.

Thank you, Marcus, for a productive stay with you and your family in Tampere, Finland. Greetings from Monk's Bunk in Tallinn, Estonia!

Welcome, Damon! How do we save the world from the apocalypse we are already in? I look forward to your investigatin.

Moro from Tampere, Finland! I am with Marcus and his family.

Hi from Helsinki! I am on my way to Tampere to visit Marcus and his family.

Tomorrow I leave to visit Emad and Evaldas in Šiauliai, then Thomas in Riga on Tuesday, Andrew in Helsinki on Thursday, and Marcus and his family in Tampere on Saturday. :)

Welcome to new participants in our culture, Samuel Hutchens and Franz Nahrada!

Marcus, I treasure our conversation. I learn about myself, you and others so often when we talk.

Hi Marcus, I will work some on the epistemology of economics and then I will call you

Andrius: I'm working further to collect and systematize the ways of figuring things out in economics.

We have our leadership meeting today at 6:00 am California, 15:00 Finland. Let Andrius know if you need the zoom link.

I have written out the application form for the Survival and Flourishing Fund and I am wondering if it makes sense to apply for funding Marcus.

Andrius, there is another site ( infranodus ) that I once used. 12€/month then became too much for the low intesity of use. At least it is interesting to see how the words in a text can be shown in their relation.

Thank you, Florian, for sharing the Regenerative Economics textbook

I came across this valuable source of economic thoughts https://www.regenerativeeconomics.earth/regenerative-economics-textbook/1-introduction-to-the-economy/1-1-what-is-the-economy

Horace, I read your sad story about the crocodile victim. What was his name?

Hans-Florian Hoyer thank you for asking about absolute truth. I responded at the bottom of your page.

Marcus, I included many examples from The Global Financial Crisis – Why Didn’t Anybody Notice?

What enables the individual to act in awareness of the whole? Dial-In-Link: https://goetheanum-ch.zoom.us/j/81364333038?pwd=bwCY9DBp8LWc7TlGQzoWi15AMibAdw.1 Meeting-ID: 813 6433 3038 Code: 644074 ON NOW!!

Marcus, in your syntropic finance investigation, your trophic levels are top down intuitions for fruitful tension with your bottom up data.

Thank you, Horace, for your uplifting stories and inspiring photos!

Maybe an interesting collection of books starting 1711 ending 1897 Bibliography of Mathematical Economics from Ceva to Cournot (1711-1837)

Florian, Thank you! I have added it to this section and will also add Vaihinger to the examples of three minds (reality vs. fictions).

Maybe this is an example? Vaihinger explaning the method of Smith.

Vaihinger, Hans: The philosophy of 'as if', a system of the theoretical, practical and religious fictions of mankind § 3—Adam Smith’s Method in Political Economy . 184-187 Adam Smith’s methodological device: the reduction of all economic processes to egoism—Fiction of a simple case—F. A. Lange and A, Oncken—Buckle. https://archive.org/details/philosophyofasif00vaih_0/page/n19/mode/1up

Marcus, I look forward to talking with you about our study groups. I would base them on the deepest values of the leaders.

Snow Moon FullmoonFullstop - tonight make your S-T-O-P- see the message from Huck to all!

I'm meeting with Jere and I hope to talk with him about quaternions and also Bott periodicity

Marcus, Horace, thank you for joining Daniel, Andrew and me today to investigate language!

Marcus, thank you for contributing to Theory Translator. I have added your examples from the Blackfeet into the pipeline for needs.

Marcus, we should go through all the methods catalogued here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Economic_methodology

Florian and Horace, good to see you connecting regarding Twin Token

Florian, thank you for sharing with us about the Twin Token

Free course on community building

Horace, Marcus, thank you for your nice letters to Janet!

Horace I just fixed some typos and links https://www.e-c-o.net/wiki/Econet/UpliftingStories

Hi Marcus! Good to see you working on Thomas Greco's epistemology

Hi Horace! I reuploaded your photo of the Ruma group. I changed the name so it has no spaces and I added the extension ".jpg". Try again to show it!

Horace Otieno, wonderful story and photo of Mama Alice!

Registration is open for joining to learn Active Inference with a group following this textbook

So what social technologies do we use on Econet? Please add some details to the socialTechnology page.

Marcus, Horace, Florian, Andrius are meeting. We're learning how to upload photos.

Hi Jere! Good to see you around. I'm getting ready for Marcus's meeting.

Hi Haris! I like your question: How can we get a group of people to deliberate as citizens on a topic of common interest and arrive at a group position statement?

Xmass trees used for fish feeding in Finland https://yle.fi/a/74-20139905

Thank you, Marcus, for leaving us notes! I will create pages for some of them later.

Horace, Marcus, that's an inspiring story about Kevin Rapemo, the fisher. I have reformatted the photos.

Thank you, Marcus. I searched the book and the phrase is there but nothing profound.

https://pdfcoffee.com/how-to-think-like-leonardo-davincipdf-pdf-free.html is a possible source

MY thesis says this on Leonardo "Thinking in terms of domains is not common. The inter-domain approach can be seen in the way of Leonardo da Vinci called saper vedere (knowing how to see) (Gelb, 1998). “To develop a complete mind: Study the science of art; Study the art of science. Learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.” Is a quote attributed to Leonardo that summarizes this idea (Pasipoularides, 2019; Kinsman, 1989), though I can find no original source of Leonardo writing or reported as saying exactly these words in any language. For more on da Vinci’s approach, see his Notebooks (2020 [1883]), and A Treatise on Painting (2014 [1802])."

Marcus, I can't find any reference where Leonardo da Vinci actually wrote of "saper vedere" (knowing or learning how to see). Can you give one?

Florian, thank you for Prigogine's quote. What does it mean for a complex system to be far from equilibrium?

Let me share this quote of Ilya Prigogine: "When a complex system is far from equilibrium, small islands of coherence have the capacity to shift the whole system to a higher order."

This reminds me of the imago cells in a pupating butterfly caterpillar, which have to assert themselves against the immune system of the old caterpillar in order to form the butterfly from the material in the chrysalis.

https://cascadiabioregion.org/free-cascadia-stickers You can get free Cascadia Stickers!! Can anyone get me some?

Marcus, let's talk about how Greco figures things out and I will write him and you.

just submitted my Preconference form. I note that Jere can also submit. (and you can submit more than one feedback).

Marcus, there is news about preconference activities and they have a form that I submitted and you should, too.

Besides Maslow, who ist well known, there also is Max-Neef https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Human-Scale-Development%3A-Conception%2C-Application-Max-Neef/1dc7196f924ab328a17503656ac26bd0fdf71d1a/figure/0 with his matrix of needs, satisfiers and fake satifiers.

Since economy is about stilling needs in the end, Gossen, Maslov and Neef are important writers. Neef calls himself a "barefoot economist".

I could not find Hermann Heinrich Gossen in econet.

Jevon on Gossen: "We now come to a truly remarkable discovery in the history of tliis branch of literature. Some years since my friend Professor Adamson had noticed in one of Kautz’ woidcs on Political Economy® a brief reference to a book said to contain a theory of pleasure and pain, written by a German author named Hermann Heinrich Gossen.

Although he had advertised for it, Professor Adamson was unable to obtain a sight of this book until August 1878, when he fortunately discovered it in a German bookseller’s catalogue, and succeeded in purchasing it.

Gossen evidently held the highest possible opinion of the importance of his own theory, for he commences by claiming honours in economic science equal to those of Copernicus in astronomy. He then at once insists that mathematical treatment, being the only sound one, must be applied throughout ; but, out of consideration for the reader, the higher analysis will be explicitly introduced only when it is requisite to determine maxima and minima. The treatise then opens with the consideration of Economics as the theory of pleasure and pain, that is as the theory of the procedure by which the individual and the aggregate of individuals constituting society, may realise the maximum of pleasure with the minimum of painful effort. The natural law of pleasure is then clearly stated, somewhat as follows:—Increase of the same hind of consumption yields pleasure continuously diminishing up to the point of satiety. This law he illustrates geometrically, and then proceeds to investigate the conditions under which the total pleasure from one or more objects may be raised to a maximum.

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.84904/page/n39/mode/1up?q=Gossen

Thursday, January 16, 18:00 Kenya, is our Zoom meeting for Community Economics and Horace Otieno's question What is the root cause of poverty?

Hi Marcus! I have delved into some of your recent examples, titling some more precisely and excluding others.

Don't forget the Fullmoon FullS.T.O.P. tonight as part of the Wolfmoon Fullstop: https://www.e-c-o.net/wiki/Econet/FullmoonFullstop

Marcus, I have put on the ToDoList that we should address your concerns about the Attach page.

I want to edit this page to add the tip about no spaces and that .png is recorded as the attached image name in uploads - but I cannot edit it.

Hi Marcus! Can we talk by zoom today?

How come there is no way for people to give money to support Econet and the only Patreon account mentioned is for a project that is not an Econet project?

Marcus, good to see you adding examples for our investigation!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory CAN SAM VIMES be useful to Horace's work on poverty?

Hi Jerry! Do you mean Globel Application Program or Global Application Program ?

Zoom Meeting 9 Jan 2025

Here are notes Present: Andrius, Marcus aa AGENDA

SO to discuss are:

Community Economics - How this might develop / strategy & vision The Practical Working Group Horace will lead The Amherst Conference Econet - Economics questions Working plan Hosts / Thought Leaders Econet Culture - our culture

Test

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I had a great conversation with Horace Otieno this morning and we look forward to meeting with Marcus Petz and others for our Community Economics meeting.

I am studying this video on The Free Energy Principle and predictive processing

Yes, Hofstadter leaves the mystery of human self-awareness and creativity open. Consciousness and meaning are emergent phenomena that cannot be fully reduced to simple physical or mathematical processes. I found interesting, that the limits of human thought, as demonstrated by Gödel, could also apply to machines.

Yes, Hofstadter leaves the mystery of human self-awareness and creativity open. Consciousness and meaning are emergent phenomena that cannot be fully reduced to simple physical or mathematical processes. I found interesting, that the limits of human thought, as demonstrated by Gödel, could also apply to machines.

Florian, in my youth (born in 1964) I also came across, Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid, but only read parts. I found it unconvincing, perhaps, scattered. :)

Andrius, I wonder if you came across Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid, a 1979 book by Douglas Hofstadter which I was fond of in my youth ;-)) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del,_Escher,_Bach

Yes, Bill! Thank you for using our chat! I am writing a letter to our group on my plans for 2025.

Great to be participating!

Thank you, Hans-Florian Hoyer, for contributing to Bill Pahl's investigation, are we central?

I am working on my investigation. Is humanity central in the universe?

Horace Otieno, thank you for writing about your deepest value, your relationship with truth, and your vision for our future!

Marcus, my thought was that you could perhaps work for the U3A, and that perhaps they could be interested in our Econet culture. I may reach out to them in Lithuania.

Yes I know the U3A. However I am not of the age that would take part. Tampere only lists U3A courses in Finnish and tells me there are none. They were done as summer school. Jyväskylä Uni is from my home 2 and a half hours away - so a 5 hour journey if I only go over one day, I try not to do that too much! As the bus timing means it is often much more. I did not know of Omnia - but I do not live in Espoo.

Marcus, are you aware of the University of the Third Age movement as in Jyväskylä and here is a history and there is Omnia.

Marcus, yes, Econet can be considered as a think tank, and also as an investigatory community, an incubator, a platform for activists...

https://sydanlanka.blogspot.com/p/nomadtown-stop.html - fullmoon fullstop

Marcus, thank you for your Solstice Greetings and your notes on our conversation.

Solstice Greetings to One and All. The Winter King is laid low and soon the summer is icumin in But not yet a wee while So Wassail and regale at your midwinter feastin Then spring forth and fall not in the year to come!

Andrius: Hi Marcus and all! I am around.

Good morning, Marcus! I am riding the bus from Eiciunai to Vilnius. :)

IASC 2025: “Regenerating the Commons: Addressing Pressing Concerns Through Learning about the Past and Innovating into the Future.”

that's what I mean by "Back to the basics for a better future (which we all can love)"

• Andrius: Thank you, Florian! That helps me understand you!

Hi Marcus! I found the source of the tree hugger image. It is Public Domain.

I added image sources to https://www.e-c-o.net/wiki/Econet/CommunityEconomicsPresentation I do not know the source for the tree hugger image - so I could not add that. Andrius?

Marcus, congratulations! I have updated our Calendar and I have created a To Do List.

Division of labor becomes productively relevant through collaboration. The organization of collaboration can also have undesirable results in addition to the desired ones. The organization can also be used with the intention of domination. This intention and also the undesirable side effects are not caused by the idea of the division of labor, but by the intention or the lack of care in the planning. I disagree with the statement that the idea of the division of labor could be the root of evil. The evil does not come from the division of labor, because it can be the cause of goods, services and infrastructures that give users a better quality of life than without it. The fact that not everyone belongs to the users is due to the inconsistent realization of the division of labor and the failure to observe values such as freedom, solidarity and equality. The text is not enlightening in this context and IMHO from a completely different context. Even if I can agree with some of the statements in it, there are statements that I have to disagree with. The concept of freedom is too one-sided for me. I also can't see what benefit it brings me to use new words for the same basics. The text wipes the accumulated scientific discourse off the table (clean slate) in order to create something new on it. This claim is too ambitious and is not fulfilled, even if it contains criticism of the status quo that is worthy of agreement. Personally, I am not willing to ignore the positive results of the economists' discussions because of this text. (Andrius: Florian, thank you! I have moved a copy of your remarks to Division of Labor.)

HUMANs Solidarity Summit continues Sunday!

Marcus and I are meeting timebankers online at the HUMANs Solidarity Summit

I am listening to the zoom session at HUMANs Solidarity Summit.

I am uploading a video with Jere's presentation

Marcus, I will collect some examples of figuring things out that are related to division of labor, and then I will call you in about 20 minutes.

Hi Gorazd! Good to see you here!

Hi Marcus, I'm back! I need to go to the store for 20 minutes.

Marcus, I am going outside to work in the yard for an hour or so.

Marcus and I are collecting examples of how economists figured things out which are related to division of labor

Hi Marcus! Thank you for writing about the software.

I am working on our presentation for the HUMANs Solidarity Summit on Saturday

Stephanie, I look forward to meeting you at HUMANs Solidarity Summit on Saturday!

Welcome, Stephanie Rearick!

Marcus, thank you for adding the examples.

Marcus, you can edit the chat page, yes! - SO I CAN!

So Chats- can we index them by poster, subject and allow comments or to collect and use them somehow? e.g. I would add https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Aurobindo to my last post.

I'm working on our presentations for the HUMANs Solidarity Summit on Saturday.

I'm working on our presentations for the HUMANs Solidarity Summit on Saturday.

Florian: You can sustain your life you can only do so through the gifts of nature. You are also born into a community, where you need to receive from and then give to and then receive from. The dynamic of life.

Florian: The fact that life is a gift for everybody. To sustain the life we need activities.

"Ghose focused on individual self-actualization. Actualization can be extended to the societal level too. The aim is to go through various states of awareness — called minds: the mundane mind, the higher mind, the illumined mind, the overmind, and ultimately the supermind. Ghose’s work strongly influenced the California Institute of Integral Studies; and Ken Wilber too, with elements of spirituality tacked on by him to Gebser’s integral societal evolution." from my PhD thesis

How did ppl in pre-economists time figure out, what was to do? Thesis: Economy startet with Ecology => Know, what, when, where and how to harvest from the gifts of nature to maintain the gift of life.

What could be the Grand Unifying Theory for all that diversity of theories?

Florian, Marcus and I are meeting to study community economics. Let us know if you are interested! Andrius

Hi Jere! Good to see you at work. I look forward to talking on Tuesday.

Franz and I are discussing PmWiki.

Hi Jere! Good to see the TimberFish Technologies patents and patents pending.

Marcus and I had two good sessions today on investigating the epistemology of economics.

Marcus, great! I am back in the zoom room.

Marcus and I are working on our investigation, collecting examples of ways that economists figure things out.

Thank you, Marcus, for creating the Community page.

Thank you, Marcus, for creating the <a href="https://www.e-c-o.net/wiki/Econet/Community">Community</a> page.

Andrius: I am figuring out how to use variables and make a list of our deepest values and relationships with truth.

Jere, Marcus, Leland and I are meeting by zoom for our Econet meeting.

Marcus alerts us to small grants funding for the commons https://ngi.eu/opencalls/#ngizerocommons5th

Hans-Florian, thank you for your thoughts on economics. What is a question that you would like to investigate further?

Hi, Hans-Florian! It was nice to meet with you. You can leave a message in this chat box. And you can edit wiki pages.

Welcome, Thomas! Thank you, Marcus, for inviting economic thinker Thomas Greco!

Good morning, Jere! Good to see working here. I will talk with Daniel in half an hour.

Welcome, Hans-Florian Hoyer! Thank you for joining us. I look forward to you participating in Marcus's meetings and investigations in community economics.

Marcus, there is one chat box. The latest line appears at the top of every page. So you can notice if it changed. And you can go to the chat box. :) 😁

so is the box the same on every page?

Andrius: I invite you to try out our chat box! Let's see how we can help each other as we work at this wiki.